Horn enclosure for Altec 414

[Barossi]

Hi,

i wonder why i can't find a horn enclosure for the altec 414 woofers. Is there a horn enclosure for this woofer avaible?
I would like to use this up to 700Hz.

Greetings Barossi

[bfish]

The only Altec horn cabs for 12" drivers that I'm aware of were in the late-model DTS line, which was a coaxial horn design, and I've never seen plans available for them. All the Altec horn cabs that have plans available online are for 15" drivers. This doesn't mean you can't build or buy some non-Altec horn cabs, such as the Jensen Imperial for example, which would be fairly easy to adapt to 12" drivers. As far as I know, the 414s are suitable for horn loading. You might also search recent threads, I think there was one since the first of the year that discussed modifying Altec 15" horns for 12" drivers.

I guess none of us have experienced 414s in open baffles, which explains the lack of response to your earlier question. We're not ignoring you, just seems that no one had the answer.

[Old Guy]

Bear in mind most Altec horns are not pure horn enclosures. The 828 et al use a 160 Hz horn while the 210's etc use an 80 Hz horn. Below this the speakers act in a bass reflex mode.

Rolloff below horn cutoff is going to be faster with the smaller driver. For this reason the A7 type enclosure wouldn't be a good idea.

In order to get bass out of a horn it has to get bigger, all other things being equal. Usually low bass horns are folded. This creates problems at the other end of the LF spectrum- phase cancellations around the bends in the horn.

A horn designed to load to 40 Hz is going to give problems in the upper bass low mid region.

A good rule of thumb for horns is keep the lowest and highest frequencies to be reproduced at 10:1 or less.

. Theoretically then a 210 with it's 80 Hz cutoff should never be use above 800 Hz. A 40 Hz horn to help the 414 get down that low should be crossed no higher than 400 Hz. This has been generally accepted as good practice. Modern SR is the primary use of horns today. Most systems are 3 or 4 way with each horn covering a narrow part of the spectrum.

Theoretically you could design a 70 Hz horn with a reflex chamber operating below that and use it up to 700 Hz.

Or you could choose something like the Jensen Imperial, where the back wave is loaded. This type enclosure has phase problems since the delayed sound going thru the back horn is out of step with the sound from the front by 6-7 milliseconds depending on the length of the horn.

That would probably be your best bet. That type of enclosure has fallen out of favor in live sound, it was very popular in the "80's and 90's.

Modern twelve inch bass horns are generally sub woofers, operating below the regular woofer range. Google EAW's LA400, or for a home brew project, the Tuba 30. Or for that matter the LAB sub.

Hoping this helps. If you want to go further just ask, I can post links for horn design pages and such.

[Barossi]

Hi CONVERGENCE,

yes, i thought about the modell 19. I have 2*811b horns in stock. I could use the pair 802-8d with the 811 and the 416 for the modell 19. But i could not find a enclosure plan!?


Greetings Barossi

[LICORNE]

Hi,

Here is the enclosure plans.


http://home.earthlink.net/~jmarkwart/id13.html

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[Old Guy]

Originally posted by Barossi:
Hi,


I have got 4*414-16b (reconed from Bill!) and a nice pair 416-16a (reconed from Bill!) and 2*414-8a (reconed from Bill). For HF i own a pair TAD-2001, a pair Altec 802-8d, and a pair Altec 288-16K.

My current system is: 414-8a in a Altec 614 enclosure together with the TAD-2001. Active crossover, Parasound Amp for the 414, and a 45 Single Amp for the TAD driver. I like this combination very much. I finished the work at my new music room, and it will be bigger (6X6 meters)

...for that reason i would like to build a bigger system for the "bigger room"!

Her my options:

a) i could use the 614 enclosure
b) i could build the monitor 9844
c) i could build a VOTT with the 416-16a
d) i could search for another pair of 416-16a and could build the Onken W (overkill!?!)
e) build a horn for the 414's


BTW i own a corner horn (Klipsch) and i could use it for the lower octaves!



So what should i do?

Greetings Barossi

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">ROTFLOL. Many of us would love to have your problems.

I'd go 3 way. If you already like what you've got, you could keep it and just add a sub. I'd take the two 416's and build a double Tuba 36. The vertical baffle version is usable to 15 hz. With 2 416's you'll get there.

http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/Tuba36.html

Personally I would think about going horn loaded on the 12's too. Altec made a corner cabinet 820a

http://voiceofthetheatre.com/wanted.820A.htm

This uses 2 15" and a very hard to get horn. I can tell you from experience and professional testing the front horn works fine with 12" drivers.
When Altec designed the 817 it wasn't a major feat. They just took this horn, stretched it to accommodate 16" frames, and took out the center divider. The rear portions between the cabs are different, but I thought that would be obvious.

I'd seal the back since you are using it as a mid high horn. You could play around with tuning it if you want.

The 808 multicell is hard to get. I'd modify the top part of the box (it's passive anyway) and use a 288G on a 311-90. I like the 288 better, you could use the TAD if you are in love with it.

This would give you a 3 way all horn system. Sub from 15 Hz to around 115 ( above that bass starts to become directional). Mid bass from there to 500 or so. 288g from 500 up.

You could use the Tad drivers on an appropriate horn. Looks like you could mod the box to fit an 805 if you wanted. I didn't check the depth.

Here's a link to prints of the 802.

http://www.highefficiencyloudspeaker...surePlans.html

It's listed there as an 80 Hz corner horn, which it isn't.

Bear in mind, this is only what I would do with my need and skill level. Yours may be entirely different.
These cabs aren't going to be easy to build. they will take some skill. And you'll need another amp.

[Barossi]

Hi,

thanks for your answers

I have the following "problem":

I have got 4*414-16b (reconed from Bill!) and a nice pair 416-16a (reconed from Bill!) and 2*414-8a (reconed from Bill). For HF i own a pair TAD-2001, a pair Altec 802-8d, and a pair Altec 288-16K.

My current system is: 414-8a in a Altec 614 enclosure together with the TAD-2001. Active crossover, Parasound Amp for the 414, and a 45 Single Amp for the TAD driver. I like this combination very much. I finished the work at my new music room, and it will be bigger (6X6 meters)

...for that reason i would like to build a bigger system for the "bigger room"!

Her my options:

a) i could use the 614 enclosure
b) i could build the monitor 9844
c) i could build a VOTT with the 416-16a
d) i could search for another pair of 416-16a and could build the Onken W (overkill!?!)
e) build a horn for the 414's


BTW i own a corner horn (Klipsch) and i could use it for the lower octaves!



So what should i do?

Greetings Barossi

[LICORNE]

Hi,

I have a sugestion. How about a model 19. The empty cabinets are on EBAY sometimes. You will also need 2 811B cell horn.

This would be more classy and would give you true professional monitor sound.

Do you know how much Klispch Belles retail price as of 2006?
14,000$ a pair. And model 19 is much superior in quality.

.......................................

[Barossi]

Hi,

thank you very,very much for your way of thinking about "my problem".
Yes, i thought about a 3-way system. And i would use my TAD2001. IMHO they are better than the 802-8d in HF response. Here you see the TAD2001 on my Jabo horns:



But i have no space in my room (corners!) for the Altec corner horn with the 414.
What about the Onken enclosure for the 416?


Greetings Barossi

[GM]

Greets!

Well, if I had (4) 414-16Bs + mid/HF horns, a K-horn for the lows, and no corners I would make a pair of MLTL loaded MTMs and inductor off one of the Ms if needed to balance it out in-room if digital EQ wasn't an option. Because it would be so tall, its footprint would be mostly dictated by the horn's dims.

GM